say what u want about EJ

[Mahdi]

Re: say what u want about EJ

EJ took the first step any rookie QB needs to take to be successful. Get the ball to the playmakers. He didn't do very flashy things, although he had a few really well placed throws, but he mainly just waited for his best players to get open and dumped it off to them.

For me that's step one.

[Novacane]

Re: say what u want about EJ

Fletch is one of the types that will never be happy. Ill take the experts who are hopping on the wagon saying Buffalo might be a lot better than they thought. (What IF CJ didnt return the kick What IF this WHAT IF that.... GET OVER IT!!!)

There were a few that wanted Reich over Kelly. My cousin was one of them. Fletch is the same type. EJ will never be able to please him. His mind is made up.

[better days]

Re: say what u want about EJ

EJ took the first step any rookie QB needs to take to be successful. Get the ball to the playmakers. He didn't do very flashy things, although he had a few really well placed throws, but he mainly just waited for his best players to get open and dumped it off to them.

For me that's step one.

And he is protecting the ball.

Only one turnover in two games.

[Fletch]

Re: say what u want about EJ

Completion % up 8% over last year. YPA up almost 1.5 yd per attempt Rating up 18 points over last year. He is showing improvement Fletch whether you admit it or not. Yeah I know it's only 2 games but that's all we have to go on. He needs to keep improving. Especially in the red zone which we all are aware of. He's played 12 games in his career. Your'e timetable for improvement is unreasonable.

So by your same standards then, tell us about Fitzpatrick over in Houston?

Has he turned a corner? Or do you expect him to flop coming up at some point?

If you apply the same standard then he's well on track to be a league leader. Right? Do you expect that?

My timetable for the improvement of a 16th overall drafted QB is right now.

What I'm looking for aren't indicators that are overcome by other indicators. Let's put it this way, who cares if he has a higher YPA if it doesn't lead to yards, points, 1st-downs, 3rd-down conversions, or Red Zone performance.

I'd rather have a lower YPA and increases in those things.

As to rating, you're right, it's only two games, so let's see where his rating is after 8. Last season after two games his rating was even higher than it is now and we beat one much better team than Chicago or Miami and nearly beat NE. We did it with much more offense from Manuel too. Carolina had the 2nd ranked defense in the league last season.

So I'm not sure what you're point is. If these points about Manuel improving are valid, then last season wouldn't have happened the way it did and we wouldn't even be discussing Manuel right now.

I'll say it again, Manuel's performances in his first two games last season were better than they are in the first two games this season.

Do with that information what you want.

[Fletch]

Re: say what u want about EJ

EJ took the first step any rookie QB needs to take to be successful. Get the ball to the playmakers. He didn't do very flashy things, although he had a few really well placed throws, but he mainly just waited for his best players to get open and dumped it off to them.

For me that's step one.

And yet that resulted in what, 1 offensive TD, right?

[Novacane]

Re: say what u want about EJ

Your mind is made up Fletch. No sense in debating you. I'm enjoying 2-0 and hoping for better things! If they happen awesome! If not oh well. We're used to it lol. Have a good day!

[Mahdi]

Re: say what u want about EJ

And yet that resulted in what, 1 offensive TD, right?

The ability to score consistently inside the redzone takes a level of ability EJ doesn't have at this point. We need to be better running the football when we're in tight.

[WagonCircler]

Re: say what u want about EJ

to me it seems the bills aren't about having a qb who can carry the team. They want strong d, good run game and mistake free football. If ej was throwing 35-40 times a game, the 3 downs and lack of scores would be an issue

That's the frustrating part. The rest of the team looks so good, but you can't keep leaving TDs on the field and walking off with FGs.

Miami had a good first week, but they are a deeply flawed team that matches up very poorly with the Bills. Then, they lost Moreno on his first carry.

Against better teams that don't match up well, and on days without 102 yard kick returns, you need a QB who can carry a team. And you need Touchdowns.

[Fletch]

Re: say what u want about EJ

I agree Fletch, we need 7 points instead of 3, especially when on the road.

On the other hand what are the stats against the Bills defense?

I know that our new and improved rushing D gave up almost 5 yards per carry against Chicago.

I don't consider Miami to have much of an offense, they were terrible last season and couldn't run the ball for ****. I don't think that they've improved much and their two best RBs left the game yesterday. So in that environment I'm not sure it's a good indicator.

Still, having said that, Tannehill played a lot better than I had expected, the Fins had 23 1st downs to our 13, were similar in 3rd-down conversions in a very hostile environment, put up almost as many net yards as we did, and had 3 of the 4 longest drives in the game.

So what are your thoughts on that?

I kinda thought that Tannehill would have maybe 150 passing yards and that Miller, whose not a good rusher, wouldn't average 4 ypc which he did. Williams is an undrafted rookie free agent and he ran well the few times he got the ball.

[Fletch]

Re: say what u want about EJ

That's the frustrating part. The rest of the team looks so good, but you can't keep leaving TDs on the field and walking off with FGs.

Miami had a good first week, but they are a deeply flawed team that matches up very poorly with the Bills. Then, they lost Moreno on his first carry.

Against better teams that don't match up well, and on days without 102 yard kick returns, you need a QB who can carry a team. And you need Touchdowns.

That's exactly it. Thanks for saying it. I say it and I get nothing but insults thrown my way.

[Fletch]

Re: say what u want about EJ

The ability to score consistently inside the redzone takes a level of ability EJ doesn't have at this point. We need to be better running the football when we're in tight.

We haven't been much better running in the red zone either though. This isn't just an EJ in the red zone thing. Jackson's our best Red Zone and 3rd-down RB and he's been terrible at that this season. Maybe age is catching up to him, I don't know.

[Fletch]

Re: say what u want about EJ

Your mind is made up Fletch. No sense in debating you. I'm enjoying 2-0 and hoping for better things! If they happen awesome! If not oh well. We're used to it lol. Have a good day!

This isn't about you and me Novacane. I'd say that the one that's made his mind up is you though.

And please, don't debate me. You're not debating anyway, you're merely coming down on me angrily because I don't agree with you, that's hardly a debate or even a reasonable discussion.

[Fletch]

Re: say what u want about EJ

Fletch is one of the types that will never be happy. Ill take the experts who are hopping on the wagon saying Buffalo might be a lot better than they thought. (What IF CJ didnt return the kick What IF this WHAT IF that.... GET OVER IT!!!)

lol

Love who the "thankers" are on this post.

The funny thing is that come about 8 weeks from now you're going to be so much unhappier with this team than I am now.

[Mahdi]

Re: say what u want about EJ

We haven't been much better running in the red zone either though. This isn't just an EJ in the red zone thing. Jackson's our best Red Zone and 3rd-down RB and he's been terrible at that this season. Maybe age is catching up to him, I don't know.

That's what I'm saying, we need to run the ball better in the redzone...

[trapezeus]

Re: say what u want about EJ

I don't think that EJ is getting it. He's the one responsible for getting 1st downs, something we rank near the bottom at, for generating drives, something we rank near the bottom at, converting 3rds, something he stinks at, and for doing something with it in the red zone, where he stinks too. I cannot share anyone's optimism on Manuel. I think as the season progresses you will eventually think the same way.

I think that if he's "having success to build on" as you put it, it's simply winning. But he had winning at FSU too, much more than here, and he still couldn't step up to be that kind of QB there either. So I'm still not expecting it here. There's no success in his play. He's still inconsistent, cannot put several quarters of solid football together, in fact he's struggling to put two together just as he did last season, and he's still inaccurate on the deep balls.

As to Watkins, what can be said, is this a trick question? Great game. I'd love to see that every week which is going to be what it takes to make him worth 2 1st-rounders and a 4th.

Let's see if he does it. It'd be nice.

Having said that, I'm skeptical. This was the home opener with more emotion, energy, and fan support than we'll see all season long. This team has a long track record of posting one or two emotional games like this early in the season before going completely flat.

Also, it's nice that Manuel found Watkins, but seems that he completely forgot about Woods and Williams who combined for 2 catches for 8 yards. Next week it might be Williams for 90 yards and Watkins and Woods going flat. To talk about Watkins as if he's going to post 100-yard every week isn't smart right now. Our WRs combined for 10 catches for 125 yards. How many winning teams do you think did worse than that from their WRs on Sunday?

Manuel did better to his WRs last week with 9 for 145. He had a TD this week though. He's averaging 135/week to his WRs is the point.

At 135 yards per week to his WRs if you're expecting Watkins to post a season that would justify spending two 1st-rounders and a 4th, you're wasting your time. Something is going to have to change for that to happen and that something is Manuel.

is there a difference between teams that rely solely on their qb and a team that is trying a more balanced approach? and if so, would you expect to see that in the stat lines?

your boy mike evans left the game. watkins played through the pain all game.

the bills warts are a lot easier to deal with at 2-0 than 0-2.

manual is being asked to be accurate 70% of the time with 25 passes. a lot of third downs were runs up the middle. where is ej to blame on that?

and frankly in years past, we got cute and made a big mistake. i agree the bills don't look like a powerhouse team, but its mid september and it doesn't feel like the sky is falling. i'll take it.

i also don't see any qb in the league right now ripping it up over 2 weeks. it seems like the qb play is about average across the board.